If someone doesn't have the mental capacity to do exactly as cops instruct them to do, they should stay home or they could end up dead long before their time .
I've never had a problem with police kicking my ass or hitting me with their billy club because I don't talk back or move if they tell me don't move .
When I was much younger I was pulled for reckless driving on the Interstate , 800 miles from home , 135 in a 70 zone, caught by an airplane pacing cars .
If I had talked back to the trooper trying to push my buttons , by mouthing off telling him there wasn't any traffic what's the big deal, I would have found myself with a headache instead of a peaceful over night in jail and cold coffee for breakfast .
If I had a mentally unstable person in my family getting out of hand I would never call the police .
The help you might find for your schizophrenic brother could end up as death by police .
The Judge is going to call it a self defense killing by cops over 99 % of the time ,even when there is video to show otherwise .
Most judges were attorneys who never had luck with the opposite sex .
It's hard to find a fair fight or a just trial when dealing with an authority figure with a chip on their shoulder .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517217/Lawyer-demonstrates-police-beat-Kelly-Thomas-homeless-man-death.html
I certainly don't want to give the impression that I'm anti-police, I far from it. But this is an incident where I believe that the police needlessly initiated and escalated the situation with this person. Make sure that you look at the raw dash cam footage and you can for your own opinion.
The police didn't "initiate" nor "escalate" anything. it was the perp that did.
The guy had run several stop signs, was in a high crime area know for car thefts and break ins, it was 4:47 am, perps in that area known to use bikes to steal cars, he had no I.D. on him, refused a pat down, resisted arrest.
What's the issue?
...and brother of a cop. Try talking to any criminal defense attorney who's read THOUSANDS of police reports and has cross-examined hundreds of cops in court.
Cops have an "us against them" mentality. If you're not a cop, they assume you're an "NCIC sluggo motherfucker." That's how cops told me they refer to people when they're not calling them "citizens" (funny, "citizens" is how biker gangs refer to non-bikers).
Cops consider the least little bit of non-cooperation as "resisting." You can tell from the first few seconds of the video that there is something wrong with the guy. He's trying to fix his bike and ignoring the cop. The cop considered that "resisting."
He kept saying "no, no, no" instead of "get the fuck off me!", another indication that he was "off." Clearly, there was something wrong with him but cops only know how to deal one way with people who they don't deem to be cooperating with them - beat them down.
and that is how we should analyze these cases?
You need to look at the video again- the cop did not consider being ignored as "resisting." The resistance came when the guy would not allow a pat down. When this happened, the cop had to assume the guy had a gun, so he had to take the guy down, secure him and do a search for his own safety.
...amount of peer pressure to conform. I have a friend who was a cop for twenty years. When he retired, he went to law school and became a criminal defense lawyer. His cop buddies, some of whom he has known for thirty years and went to the academy with, now refuse to talk to him because he defends "criminals." That's how cops treat anyone who doesn't share their world view.
Get out there in the real world, mari, instead of academic black letter law, which is all you ever cite. And stop listening to JackDunphy who has stars in his eyes from sitting on his daddy's lap and swallowing all his BS without learning the other side.
instead of the facts, I promise not to listen to him.
If someone doesn't have the mental capacity to do exactly as cops instruct them to do, they should stay home or they could end up dead long before their time .
I've never had a problem with police kicking my ass or hitting me with their billy club because I don't talk back or move if they tell me don't move .
When I was much younger I was pulled for reckless driving on the Interstate , 800 miles from home , 135 in a 70 zone, caught by an airplane pacing cars .
If I had talked back to the trooper trying to push my buttons , by mouthing off telling him there wasn't any traffic what's the big deal, I would have found myself with a headache instead of a peaceful over night in jail and cold coffee for breakfast .
Most cops are good guys , there is a minority of insecure cops who were shunned or bullied as children. They are looking for an excuse to get back at anyone for their childhood issues still eating at them .
If I had a mentally unstable person in my family getting out of hand I would never call the police .
The help you might find for your schizophrenic brother could end up as death by police .
The Judge is going to call it a self defense killing by cops over 99 % of the time ,even when there is video to show otherwise .
Most judges were attorneys who never had luck with the opposite sex .
It's hard to find a fair fight or a just trial when dealing with an authority figure with a chip on their shoulder .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517217/Lawyer-demonstrates-police-beat-Kelly-Thomas-homeless-man-death.html
as if the flashing blue lights don't help one discern from random men in black and the police.
Dude knew it was police. When the police grab for your wrist, give 'em your wrist unless you want to get beaten. Even if you didn't do anything wrong. Having bravery is not required to be a police officer, so they have all these precautions they take before SHTF. People better wake up and realize this ain't your grandfather's Amerika. When the police give you orders, you better do it whether you're right or wrong, or you're going to get beaten. This man just didn't get the memo.
Who writes those articles anyway? "All of THE sudden" and "id". It's supposed to be a news article. I prefer news articles that at least try to hide the writer's bias.
Edit: I read the man is mentally challenged. I'd be interested to find out how challenged. But, quadseasoned has a good point about cops not knowing how to deal with mentally challenged. I think it would do the force some good on how to spot certain mental illness and disabilities, so cops can act accordingly.
-- Modified on 5/8/2014 6:46:06 PM
is about as prejudicial an opening line as I can think of. It certainly sets the tone for the authors bias when writing this article.
I don't subscribe to the "all cops" are either good or bad mentality. They are human, some good, some not so good, and yes some of them are getting revenge for getting beat up as kids, but they are a huge minority IMO.
I am sorry, but if you can't follow simple instructions given to you by LE, you have no business being out on the streets in the middle of the night alone. I am far from a "law and order" kind of guy, but I have to give the cops the BOD on this one, I've seen real "beat downs" in my life, this was far from a beat down.
I wonder if this is the brand of freedom Pussy Riot is seeking.
Whether the stop was lawful would depend on the stop and identify statute in that state. If the statute allows for a pat down when a citizen fails to produce ID, then the stop was entirely lawful. If not, the stop was bad and the laying on of hands would be a battery.
If the stop was lawful, the force applied was reasonable from what we can see on the tape. Once the cop announced the pat down, the guy started resisting and kept resisting. The force used thereafter was entirely reasonable.
Even if we assume the guy was mentally ill, that changes nothing. The cops did not know that and I hope you are going to reply with a “they should have known.” A person high on drugs acts “off” just as much as this guy and may be a danger. The police are not required to back off from using reasonable force just bc the suspect appears off
Some jurors may be planning to write a letter to Judge Ronald Zweibel seeking leniency.
Their apparent remorse comes amid an outpouring of outrage in Occupy circles over the conviction of McMillan, who was known within the movement for vocally supporting non-violence. Occupiers and supporters have now raised more than $10,000 online for her legal defense, with much of that money coming in the days after her conviction.
One big motivating factor: a photo showing McMillan's bruised breast taken days after her arrest. Supporters said it proves she was reacting to being grabbed in the breast from behind, not willfully injuring the police officer.
Ummmm...the witnesses said SHE assaulted the cop and was convicted of same. Did you read the article at all?
I'm guessing you were one of the idiots praising/agreeing with the "militia" threatening to kill federal employees at the Bundy ranch
Before he had fact one " the police acted stupidly " - Barrack Hussein Obama
No Barrack Hussein Obama , a Harvard Professor and a your close person friend, jumping around on his front porch screaming YO MOMMA in front if news cameras is acting stupidly .
...and the real world. It must be nice to live in your ivory tower in cloud cuckoo land.
And yes, "they should have known." If cops were properly trained, they would be able to handle mentally ill people. The Albuquerque Police Dept. has started training its officers because the Justice Department found that the Albuquerque police often used unnecessary excessive force with those struggling with mental illness.
The APD Assistant Police Chief stated: "What we want to see happen is that the first officer to show up on a call with somebody in crisis or with mental illness is equipped to deal with that from start to finish."
For one, the cops should have left this guy alone. If anything, they should have tried to help him with his bike.
But the guy did resist arrest. Which is retarded, but apparently the guy was retarded.
I learned a neat trick a little while back to keep the cops from fucking with you. Buy a gun, get a license to conceal it, carry it on you, and when the cop asks for ID, show him your concealed carry ID along with your driver's license. Shortest traffic stop I've ever experienced. The cop might as well have said, "oh, you have a gun, and you're licensed to carry it? Bye!"
but what you just said about a CC permit is actually quite true.
but it's not a matter of the cops fearing you for having a legal weapon in your possession, I believe it's a matter of nothing says "law abiding citizen" than a Concealed Carry permit.
Contrary to the anti gunners rhetoric the overwhelming majority of people with CC permits are law abiding citizens who have gone through the proper channels in order to get their permits.
There was an interesting social experiment at Stanford University in the 1970's. I once saw a video of this years ago, I forget where. In any case, in the experiment, students were picked at random to be "prisoners" and another group to be "prison guards". Within a few days, the "prison guard" students started adopting a behavior pattern in which they thought of themselves as superior to the "prisoner" students. The "prison guard" students started adopting a view of superiority and privilege over the "prisoner" students. They looked down on them, said disparaging things to them, and treated them as 2nd class individuals.
You see this come out in all kinds of strange places in American life. There's first class and coach. There's managers and workers. There's the wealthy and the not wealthy.
Marx may have been a shit head, and wrong about a lot of things, but he certainly hit the nail on the head when he talked about class differences. I've always found it strange, that in a country that is supposed founded upon the principle that "all men are created equal", that we, as human beings, don't seem to internalize this. We see this play out in people who are racist all the time too.
One of the quickest ways in which to make a group of stupid people (cops) to adopt this view is give them power. Cops have the power of having the law and law enforcement behind them. But they also have the power of having a gun (and various other weapons) that they're allowed to use against the citizenry.
If you or I tazed somebody, we'd go to jail. If cops do it, well, that's just part of their job. One can debate whether this is right or not, but it does create a sense of privilege for cops. They can do things that others can't.
When a cop stops someone, they can often treat those people like shit because what the fuck is the average joe going to do about it? The cop has a gun, and you don't.
As soon as you change that dynamic, you're now on equal footing with the cop. The cop has the power, if he chooses to use it, to put a bullet in my head. I have the power, if I choose to use it, to do the same thing.
Because of this, a cop will be less likely to view me as his inferior, but rather he will likely view me as one of his peers.
During this traffic stop, this cop's shitty attitude immediately change to one of politeness as soon as he saw my CCW. A 2nd patrol car got behind him, and the cop said he was going to run my license. He went over to the 2nd cop, said something to him, and the 2nd patrol car got the hell out of there post haste. The cop ran my license in about 30 seconds, when normally I'd have to wait for about 5 minutes, and the entire traffic stop ended up being the shortest traffic stop that I've ever experienced.
Veterans should always hand them their ID with the license. Police Officers have the upmost respect those that have served.
I don't speed and haven't been pulled over in years, but if I am pulled over I would just submit to whatever they asked license, search my vehicle, registration, insurance. And be on my way. I ain't got time to go around and round with them over my rights being violated, because they will win. So I don't speed, don't drink and drive, wear my seat belt, and never ever transport any weed. And say yes sir, when they patronage my business. And just a positive for the police, they do seem to respect and support small businesses.
My impressions were that the police exacerbated the situation in this case. First, it was obvious the the guy was trying to fix his bike. Secondly, the officer didn't give the man a chance to respond when he said the was going to pat him down. It was practically a simultaneous action. Thirdly, the officer did not have a reasonable and articulable suspicion to ask for an ID. It was clear the gentleman was fixing his bike and the fact that it was late and there had been car thefts in the area are irrelevant. If we are not driving, we are under no obligation to have an ID on our person and we are under no obligation to show an id just because they ask for one without reasonable and articulable suspicion that a crime has been committed or is about to be committed, bot of which are absent in this case. We all have the right to travel unacosted by the police.
So souring the physical act of the arrest, at least they didn't beat the hell out of the guys, but I question the need for the officer to get physical in the first place. It seemed to me that the gentlemen wasn't leaving the site and he could have simply waited for backup to occur and attempt to gain compliance through non physical means. It seems to me, that officers today, prefer physical altercations over peaceful ones. Why is that?
http://www.cityofdearborn.org/government/mayors-office
This is hardly an issue that can be characterized as democratic or republican. Police everywhere are militarized, have an "us vs them" attitude toward the public, and are given a free pass everywhere in terms of some of their bad behavior. The current mayor of Albuquerque NM is a republican and his department was just under investigation by the feds for a culture of abusive behavior. In Albuquerque, their cops like to shoot people.
On PD brutality under Republican rule vs Demoratic rule.
Get those numbers.
Why don't you provide them Dick Smack. You brought the topic up.
Your Pimp hand is rather weak.
Get those numbers.
time of night for a disabled, mentally handicapped young man to ride his bicycle. But no, I think the officer should have realized he was off and helped him and especially not hurt him. He should have given him a ride home in my opinion.