The hobby has definitely altered some of my views on relationships, and this is one of those topics that has been altered. I firmly believe that in any relationship, there must be sexual compatibility, and this sexual compatibility is a large part of a relationship. (Note that that doesn't mean sex itself has to be a large part of a relationship, but "sexual compatibility".) Yes, it is "betrayal" if a man (or woman) steps out on their partner. But what is it if the man ("man" for simplicity's sake here; either partner can apply) brings up over and over and over that he is not being sexually satisfied by his wife? And the wife doesn't do anything, or what she does is rare and halfhearted when it does happen; she doesn't put in any effort despite the man's efforts to fix things? A relationship- especially a marriage- is about compromise. There is only so much compromising a person can do when it comes to their sexual urges, and why should the compromising only be one-sided? If you don't keep your partner satisfied, they will either leave or cheat at some point- and if they do neither, they will at the very least come to resent you greatly.
Ideally, yes, I believe that if a couple is not sexually compatible, then they should split up. But life's not always ideal. There are often children involved, and while I'm certainly no believer in sticking around unhappily in a relationship "for the kids", what if everything else in the relationship is great besides the sex part? What if your wife has extreme health problems- cancer, depression, etc- and you truly love her but just are not getting sex? This goes back to what I said in my previous reply: there is no cookie-cutter right-or-wrong answer here.
In spite of this cheating is a cruel act that will hurt the one cheated on badly and shouldn't be done. I to understand why it happens. And the reasons vary but the lies that come with cheating are almost always poisonous to the relationship and to the one lied to. You don't hurt those you love if you can avoid it. Cheating is a very selfish act and rarely if ever ends well.
Yes, a marriage is about compromise. And if one side is not willing to compromise the marriage is doomed. If every thing is fine except the sex, you should be open about the problem. Things often can be worked out. There are often better options than cheating.
There is the work on the relationship option. Sometime the lack of sex is the result of anther issue. Her feeling overwhelmed or not appreciated. Sometimes one side gets focused on themselves, their job or the kids and unintentionally neglects the other. Putting the effort that it takes to cheat into the relationship often can fix these issues. If one side is not willing to work on the issues this likely will not work but for many it is the best option.
I know of at leased two people that post on the boards that there wife is not able for heath reasons able to have sex with the husbands, so when they approached there wife about the issue they were given permission to play with pros until they can return to taking care of there need themselves. An open relationship where permission for one or both parties can seek sexual release can be an option for some. I know for many such a thing would not work.
I know of one who also was in that boat that gave up sex out of love and respect for his wife until she died. He never resented his wife. He hardly left her side for the two years she was bedridden. His solution is also one that may work for some but not for all. There is the sacrifice for the other option that will work for some but not all.
You mentioned the divorce option, if open communication fails it is often the nicest most humane course in the long run. As sooner or later the cheater will likely get caught or outed. Secret lives often don't stay secret forever. It is in my mind it is a last resort, but it is an option. It may be the only option left if all of the above fail.
You are right there is no cookie-cutter right-or-wrong answer. But there are better options than cheating, if you really love your SO. The OP decided to continue cheating and for his and his family sake I hope his choice does not destroy him or the ones he loves. I don't judge him or his wife as a bad person for there choices. But I do feel it is a mistake. We all make mistakes. This one could be very costly, both to him and those he loves when not if he is found out.
I know my point of view on this subject is not popular around here. Most people here will not agree with me. That is OK. People have the right to there opinion, just like I have the right to mine. I do not think my point of view is the only valid one. I am not judging anyone for there choice in this as it does not affect me or mine.
I'm relatively new to hobbying although I saw a couple of providers in the Red Light District in Amsterdam when I was 18, but not counting. Anyway, I'm 40, married for 10 years, have 2 kids. Love my wife, although sex after we've had kids has been mediocre especially in the BJ department which is unfortunately my favorite thing. When I was away on a trip to I ordered in a provider and had the most amazing sex experience ever, better than with my wife. Since then, I've seen a couple more providers primarily for BJs.
I admire that so many of you hobbists have open relationships with your wives and can do whatever you want. Not going to fly with mine however. We've tried sex/relationship counseling to see if we can get a more satisfying sex life going (without her knowing about my side action) which has worked a little, but not enough to get me to stop wanting to see providers.
The trouble is, like many of you, I just love it! I love being able to pick when I want. I love being able to search to find providers with tongue rings. I love trying new things. Not feeling super guilty about it, only worried I might get caught.
For those of you who have cheated for a while, has it ultimately ended badly, or have you been able to enjoy an occasional encounter?
It was later in life than most when I first entered the hobby. I was 57 and have been enjoying
the benefits for 5 years. I started for much the same reasons as you. For me, because of required
medications needed resulting from several conditions she developed over the years, there is no interest on her part at all. I dealt with this for a long time and grew tired of taking matters in my own hands so to speak. Make this short. I am glad I did. Yes she will be deeply hurt if she ever learns, but with
several family crisis we have endured, she knows my feelings towards her have not changed and
have become stronger.
After the initial shock, I think she will reflect and realize why and that I have been there as always. At least I hope that would be the end result. However, I am too much of a coward to flat out tell her just to test my theory.
I wonder, if we took a survey of guys on the General (Genital?) Board, how many of them are cheating? My guess is a substantial majority. Very few wives can handle knowing, so you have to decide what you really want and need, and how important your marriage is. Personally, I never cheated on either wife. Wife #2 knows I'm doing it, said it was OK, and now is extremely uncomforable about it. But, for me, there's no going back. I am just not a sexually monogamous creature.
Wife has no interest in sex. Period, end of story. Age, medical issues, it happened over time, now we flirt a little, cuddle some, say sweet things to each other, but I cannot even remember when we last did the deed.
Am I cheating on her? I do not really think so. In fact, I went to some effort to rekindle our sex life a few years ago, and she eventually just said no. Then I explained to her that this was a risky position for us, that I might have to go elsewhere, not saying I would or planned to, but it could happen. She said she understood that was a risk.
So I do not need to worry about bringing STDs home, and she surely knows but chooses to pretend (to herself more than anyone else) she does not, that I continue to find my pleasure somewhere. My guess is that she would not be surprised at all to find out I hobby, though she would be upset and either try to kill me or do everything she could to pretend it was not true. Probably the latter, but who knows for sure? What I am sure of is that some other members of my family would be very, very pissed off, and possibly never forgive me.
If it were me, and I still had any sex life, I would do whatever I could to make that sex life something that satisfied me, and only hobby if I was unsuccessful. It is so much simpler, safer, cheaper and ultimately more satisfying on almost every level. But that is just me.
As for statements about marriage having to be completely open and honest - I have a warm, loving, successful marriage of over 25 years, and I cry BS to any marriage being completely open and honest - a very romantic idea. Everyone has their boundaries, things they think or do that they do not want to share. It is easy to say that all those walls need to come down, but they do not have to, and they never will. The secrets and little lies are often acts of affection (like telling her she looks beautiful when you know she wants to hear that even though you are really thinking something different) and only are an issue if they get in the way of the intimacy and time you share. If you are thinking about providers when you are with your wife, that is definitely a problem. For me, the time with providers has made me a little more attentive, more romantic and more physical with her, while requiring nothing more from her in return. She seems to like that.
First, I really appreciate your post. It's very thoughtful about why you've chosen your course of action. Some folks seem to have a black and white point of view about this. I've read a few suggestions that hobbying will make my situation worse. Maybe for some, but I actually feel that it makes it better. It makes me feel more love for my wife when I'm with her and not get angry or resentful when I don't get that perfect deep throat BJ.
I probably had about 10 girlfriend type relationships before my current wife. The sex was hotter in some, but the relationship was poor, especially when we started out early with the sex before developing the relationship. In some, I walked around with a black cloud over my head, finding this person annoying and feeling insecure, but loving the sex.
My relationship with my wife is the opposite. We developed the relationship for a while before finally hooking up. The sex was never as great as it was with others, but I was willing to overlook that because I felt like she was my soul mate. Everything else was awesome.
So here I am 10 years later, with two kids, a great career, all settled in. It's just that the sex is the weakest link. She's gotten less interested with her full time job and kids consuming her attention. As I've said, we've tried couples therapy with moderate success, but it still didn't get me that DTBJ.
So here I am.
I have been married for 28 years, and if I had done half of what my wife accuses me of, I would occupy an honored place in the Cheater's Hall of Fame. On the other hand, she is not completly wrong about me. I mention this to establish my cheater's credentials, and to convey some idea of how understanding she would be if she were to discover that I am a practicing hobbyist.
When you take up this hobby, you take on a second, secret life. That life, for hobbyists like you and me, must exist within boundaries and must have nothing to do with your first one. You will succeed to the extent that you are able to keep your secret life within bounds and to keep your lives separate.
Live up to the responsibilities of your first life, and you should be able to enjoy your second one for as long as you want.
PS: Tongue rings... EWWWWW!!!
I got caught (twice!) and ended up divorced, losing a lot of money in the process.
On the other hand, I got something worth more than money: freedom.
As a bonus, I met a wonderful person with whom I have been sharing a close SO relationship and who is fine with my hobbying.
So, even though it wasn't a situation I would have chose originally, I'm happy for the way things turned out.
If you do want to keep your marriage intact, I suggest reading the Self Help Manual on here and taking all due precaustions. If I had, I would probably not have been caught.
anyone about this secret life. Once you confide in a friend, his loose lips could bring it all to an end. Yes, that is one of the hard parts but you go to STFU.
Been doing this for over 8 years and as long as the equipment works, plan on P4P. Nothing like being in the company of a young (I'm 60 so providers are all younger) hottie for a few hours of pleasure.
Honestly, I'm the most scared of bringing STDs home. Have you caught any in your 8 years? If so, what did you do?
Assume one of your 2 kids came to you (as an adult) with this scenario and asked for your advice - -what would your response to them be? Stay in a relationship that is unsatisfying and doesn't seem to be getting any better (especially after counseling), or end it and go your separate ways, looking to become a healthier person?
If you can't fix the problem, cheating will not make it any better. Cheating will only make it worse, under any scenario that I can imagine. If you end the relationship (admittedly painful for all in the family, in the short term), you can then move on with your lives in a more uncluttered fashion. Then perhaps P4P can satisfy the urges while you get your emotional side readjusted; the envelope does offer the separation to (hopefully) keep you from becoming attached while things settle out.
That way you get to try new things and have no guilty feelings about it. Enjoy your encounters and your life -- the best of all possible worlds.
Yes. She will find out and it will devastate her and your kids.
I am married and I hobby. But I only do so with her blessing. If she even hinted for me to stop I would.
Be a man and protect your family from you and stop.
I don't think you can apply a cookie-cutter solution to a problem that can vary so much between couples. And in such situations, I don't believe it is always the man (or the "cheater") who is totally at fault. Sex is a huge part of life for many, many people. Sex is also a not-so-huge part of life for many people. The conundrum is what to do when all other factors are wonderful... except the sex factor? I don't think there is a right answer for everyone who has this problem.
Betrayal should not be the answer if you love her. That is what cheating is. I also know it is rarely one sided as both parties often aren't living up to there end of the deal. But if a marriage is going to be anymore real that a paid GFE session, it need to be an honest one.
I will tell you from where I come from. My wife business folded up last year. She felt like a complete failure. And to be honest I was not the best husband. I had some serous issues I was worried about and was not there for her as she needed me to be. To hide her failure from me, and to regain her confidence in herself, She returned to prostitution. She lied to me and cheated on me.
After almost a year, guilt started to eat at her. I dealt with my issues and started to put her first again. This made the guilt unbearable for her as she no longer had the excuse that I was in no shape to handle the truth. I also sensed something was wrong. To lessen her guilt she convinced me to start hobbying. I felt so guilty, I could not preform. But I seen a few ladies as my wife kept pushing. I knew something was up. It scared me.
After my wife dragged me to a threesome with her and a provider. I could not take it anymore. I demanded to know what was going on. She finally confessed. I was furious. I walked out. I called my lawyers and had them draft divorce papers. I then found a hotel checked in and cried. It felt like my world had ended. I put myself back together for her and my son and she hurt me badly.
I returned the next day as my son was there. This forced me to face her although I could hardly look at her. A couple days later my lawyers produced the divorce papers that I fully planed on filing. They were extremely harsh. They would leave her with nothing besides the debt from her failed business. It was too harsh I could not sign them even though she did. I could not do that to her.
I realized I still loved her. I tore up the papers and committed to see her through her issues like she seen me through mine. We now have a semi-open relationship. We still have issues but things are better. I can deal with her seeing her clients. But the lies almost killed me. A marriage worth anything must be honest and with out betrayal.
No there is not one right answer. For some it is giving up sex, for others it is divorce, for others it is one partner putting out more that he/she would like, and for others it is a more open but honest relationship. It is not betraying those you claim to love.
Don't get me wrong. I am not condoning nor excusing cheating at all. However, I do understand why it happens and it's not my place to judge the couple (especially without knowing both sides).
The hobby has definitely altered some of my views on relationships, and this is one of those topics that has been altered. I firmly believe that in any relationship, there must be sexual compatibility, and this sexual compatibility is a large part of a relationship. (Note that that doesn't mean sex itself has to be a large part of a relationship, but "sexual compatibility".) Yes, it is "betrayal" if a man (or woman) steps out on their partner. But what is it if the man ("man" for simplicity's sake here; either partner can apply) brings up over and over and over that he is not being sexually satisfied by his wife? And the wife doesn't do anything, or what she does is rare and halfhearted when it does happen; she doesn't put in any effort despite the man's efforts to fix things? A relationship- especially a marriage- is about compromise. There is only so much compromising a person can do when it comes to their sexual urges, and why should the compromising only be one-sided? If you don't keep your partner satisfied, they will either leave or cheat at some point- and if they do neither, they will at the very least come to resent you greatly.
Ideally, yes, I believe that if a couple is not sexually compatible, then they should split up. But life's not always ideal. There are often children involved, and while I'm certainly no believer in sticking around unhappily in a relationship "for the kids", what if everything else in the relationship is great besides the sex part? What if your wife has extreme health problems- cancer, depression, etc- and you truly love her but just are not getting sex? This goes back to what I said in my previous reply: there is no cookie-cutter right-or-wrong answer here.
The hobby has definitely altered some of my views on relationships, and this is one of those topics that has been altered. I firmly believe that in any relationship, there must be sexual compatibility, and this sexual compatibility is a large part of a relationship. (Note that that doesn't mean sex itself has to be a large part of a relationship, but "sexual compatibility".) Yes, it is "betrayal" if a man (or woman) steps out on their partner. But what is it if the man ("man" for simplicity's sake here; either partner can apply) brings up over and over and over that he is not being sexually satisfied by his wife? And the wife doesn't do anything, or what she does is rare and halfhearted when it does happen; she doesn't put in any effort despite the man's efforts to fix things? A relationship- especially a marriage- is about compromise. There is only so much compromising a person can do when it comes to their sexual urges, and why should the compromising only be one-sided? If you don't keep your partner satisfied, they will either leave or cheat at some point- and if they do neither, they will at the very least come to resent you greatly.
Ideally, yes, I believe that if a couple is not sexually compatible, then they should split up. But life's not always ideal. There are often children involved, and while I'm certainly no believer in sticking around unhappily in a relationship "for the kids", what if everything else in the relationship is great besides the sex part? What if your wife has extreme health problems- cancer, depression, etc- and you truly love her but just are not getting sex? This goes back to what I said in my previous reply: there is no cookie-cutter right-or-wrong answer here.
In spite of this cheating is a cruel act that will hurt the one cheated on badly and shouldn't be done. I to understand why it happens. And the reasons vary but the lies that come with cheating are almost always poisonous to the relationship and to the one lied to. You don't hurt those you love if you can avoid it. Cheating is a very selfish act and rarely if ever ends well.
Yes, a marriage is about compromise. And if one side is not willing to compromise the marriage is doomed. If every thing is fine except the sex, you should be open about the problem. Things often can be worked out. There are often better options than cheating.
There is the work on the relationship option. Sometime the lack of sex is the result of anther issue. Her feeling overwhelmed or not appreciated. Sometimes one side gets focused on themselves, their job or the kids and unintentionally neglects the other. Putting the effort that it takes to cheat into the relationship often can fix these issues. If one side is not willing to work on the issues this likely will not work but for many it is the best option.
I know of at leased two people that post on the boards that there wife is not able for heath reasons able to have sex with the husbands, so when they approached there wife about the issue they were given permission to play with pros until they can return to taking care of there need themselves. An open relationship where permission for one or both parties can seek sexual release can be an option for some. I know for many such a thing would not work.
I know of one who also was in that boat that gave up sex out of love and respect for his wife until she died. He never resented his wife. He hardly left her side for the two years she was bedridden. His solution is also one that may work for some but not for all. There is the sacrifice for the other option that will work for some but not all.
You mentioned the divorce option, if open communication fails it is often the nicest most humane course in the long run. As sooner or later the cheater will likely get caught or outed. Secret lives often don't stay secret forever. It is in my mind it is a last resort, but it is an option. It may be the only option left if all of the above fail.
You are right there is no cookie-cutter right-or-wrong answer. But there are better options than cheating, if you really love your SO. The OP decided to continue cheating and for his and his family sake I hope his choice does not destroy him or the ones he loves. I don't judge him or his wife as a bad person for there choices. But I do feel it is a mistake. We all make mistakes. This one could be very costly, both to him and those he loves when not if he is found out.
I know my point of view on this subject is not popular around here. Most people here will not agree with me. That is OK. People have the right to there opinion, just like I have the right to mine. I do not think my point of view is the only valid one. I am not judging anyone for there choice in this as it does not affect me or mine.
I have been in the hobby for almost a year and love it. Ofcourse as you must also know, seeing a provider is not as easy as it is being married than single. Forget the pseudo morals of those who preach to be open and honest.....The practicality is Most wives think the same way(while it is ok for them not to have sex at all, it is not Ok for the hubby to get some on the side)
Practically, I would love the freedom of being single again , it would be devastating for my wife and kids to get divorced. It is hard to predict what the outcome of a divorce would be( worst case sceniaro extreme depression and suicide for the wife). Apart from the sex side, I still love my wife( we have been thorugh a lot over the years) and would hate to see the smiles wiped off my family's face after divorce. So I would not defnly confess up to the wife with no benefit in doing so.
Of course the pseudo moralists would then preach to bear the brunt of no sex and stomp on the frustration and pretend to be a happy guy. But practically, this is not psossible as being sexually frustrated makes me a miserable person to be with and eventually the relationship would crumble with the same devestating consequences of being caught in the hobby. I defnly would not want that either.
Now, my mind is at ease, no longer frustrated, I am able to grin and not argue when the wife is upset at me for any reason, the kids always find me in a good mood. I feel this works the best for me.
Again, I am really careful and would rather skip seeing a provider if I do not have the complete confidence of pulling off an encounter without getting caught.
To the pseudo moralists, my takeis this... When you have no qualms about keeping Hobbying secret from your SO, go ahead and announce it to your co-workers and friends and other family members like your parents/Sibiling etc. Transperency should be universal for people who are "real men."
Happy Hobbying to all.....
I completely agree. Well, of course I do, I'm in a very similar situation. I think a very large portion of TER clients are, too. In my case the kids are all grown and I don't think my wife would kill herself over it. Also, she initially agreed to let me play, though now she's become quite uncomfortable about it. So I'm wrestling with three choices: 1) stopping because I don't want to cause her pain, but leaving me unhappy and unfulfilled; 2) lieing to her and continuing to very carefully see the ladies, or; 3) going on a binge while she's away for two weeks later this month, then stopping when she returns and trying to see if we can fix our sex life. I'm thinkin' it'll be 3) because I can't imagine sitting home alone for two weeks flogging it.
That said, my hobbying is "on the side". I promised myself I'd not do anything stupid when I began this hobby. I've since learned that one must take a lot of steps to cover your tracks... or not create them in the first place. My all means START with the Self help section (formerly known as the Newbie Manual) then read back several pages on this board until you can answer every question yourself.
If you havealready broached the subject of improving your sex life, then bring home a few books & especially check out the moves on ivillage. If something new should come up at home... "I saw it on ivillage or read about it."
I can't play all that often, but enjoy the hell out of it when I do. I'm not "driven" to cheat. It's not a compulsion. When circumstances are right, I go for it. If things are just not falling into place, it wasn't meant to happen.
Agree with MrF & others. This is a secret life. You take this to your grave. You NEVER tell anyone. Not your brother, your best friend, the guys at the pub... If you want to vent about it... type away, right here!! Then zip your lips. (Anyone who knows has power over you... one drunken slip up on their part & YOU're screwed!! Never let that happen.)
All the "rules of the game" are there for a reason... follow them.
If you decide you don't want to hobby, that's perfectly fine. It's a valid personal choice. Just make an informed decision.
I've been playing about 5 years... 
skb
Thanks everyone to those who responded. Since I read so many moral high-ground open relationship posts, I was expecting more "man up" responses. Seems like the advice each person gives is based on what they are doing themselves. Makes sense I guess. Since I am currently keeping this a secret life, I really had no one to discuss it with except you guys. So far, the majority of the responses have been to keep it secret, be careful and enjoy, and two who have said that I should "man up" and/or get divorced.
You know, I've thought about getting divorced before which is what prompted me to go therapy in the first place. I told my wife point blank that I was unsatisfied with our sex life and we needed to do something about it (of course without mentioning what I have been doing to keep myself sane).
What we learned through a few assessments and tests is that we are a very good match, very compatible, have similar values, all the right ingredients for a successful marriage, but needed to work on the sex part of it. She agreed to help us work on it. So it's gotten a little bit better. The problem is with her working full time a 3 and 5 year old tugging on her shirt when she gets home and her heart strings when she leaves, she often doesn't feel very sexy. I on the other hand am always horny.
I've never been through divorce, but from what I hear, it really sucks emotionally, financially, and every which way. We've got great kids, a great relationship with them, a great house, we have a lot to lose.
So, I'm leaning towards the take it to my grave advice over the throw a bomb into my and my family's life route.
Great analysis Bro! You analyzed it well for many here.
You know, I've thought about getting divorced before which is what prompted me to go therapy in the first place. I told my wife point blank that I was unsatisfied values, all the right ingredients for a successful marriage, but needed to work on the sex part of it. She agreed to help us work on it. So it's gotten a little bit better. The problem is with her working full time a 3 and 5 year old tugging on her shirt when she gets home and her heart strings when she leaves, she often doesn't feel very sexy. I on the other hand am always horny.
I've never been through divorce, but from what I hear, it really sucks emotionally, financially, and every which way. We've got great kids, a great relationship with them, a great house, we have a lot to lose.
So, I'm leaning towards the take it to my grave advice over the throw a bomb into my and my family's life route.
You're violating your marriage contract and putting yourself in the crosshairs of divorce and alimony in an age when feminized courts are against men. You risk bringing disease to your marital bed (however bland). You risk shaming your family and possibly damaging your career, much more so than if you were having an office affair. You risk arrest. All of these risks--every time--for a Piece that likely not be a "10" experience every time.
It's so easy to judge other people. I put myself out on the message board, so tell us your story.
Women have a sixth sense. She will know. Getting caught or giving proof is up to you. My SO found out and flipped her wig. I explained to her why I did it and the way she "used"to make me feel and she started giving me great bjs and awsome sex again. I still hobby but not nearly as much. Honestly I don't have the energy. That goes to show that most of us married guys wouldn't be doing this if things were right at home. Why aren't any providers writting books? LOL!
My wife has had several, count them, several affairs on me. I began hobbying as a form of self-empowerment. I need to prove to myself that I can live life without her and that I have the ability to please another woman. I need to know that I am more than just an option for her, for when she gets sick and needs to be taken care of (but when she is fine and all is good, she doesn't come home at night or goes skinny dipping with her ex boyfriend). I need to know the touch of a woman that actually wants to be with me. Our vows of fidelity were broken years ago.
I'm not sure if I'll get busted or not. I really don't care as I'm no longer emotionally, or mentally vested in the marriage anymore, to be honest, which obviously is a red flag for our continued viability as a union. Finances are keeping me here right now, and that's only until next year.
If you feel like you HAVE to hobby, you might need to think long and hard about is this the right marital partner for you. I realized sometime ago that this isn't the right one for me. Though I totally get why a lot of us just continue to hobby and stay married especially if your wife is actually good to you, has been faithful, you have kids to think about and there are no real problems.
My desire is to begin divorce within a year.