There is a reason it is called "the worlds oldest profession", but two people can come together, and enjoy the pleasures of each others bodies without the exchange of value.  It is a beautiful thing!

One of the problem of today is that women have achieved earning power and equality,but many men haven't figured it out yet.  They re still looking for Donna Reed.  The women of today want the independence, but were raised to be June Cleaver.  

I, for on, prefer womn who are independent, can stand on there own two feet, and make there own way.  Deliver me from the simpering, whinny women whose mantra is "I can't do it.". I'm not looking for a Dom, but rather an equal partner.  Happily, I have found that among providers a higher percentage of independent women.  

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Hey Ava,

Is your desire to have BOTH a man and your independence.

I don't know your life hisotry, but it sounds to me that you really haven't had a serious relationship in a LONG time and because of this, you lack clear direction on what you want to do with your life.

I don't think that a TER forum will get you the answers that you need.

What you do need to do is take a serious evaluation of yourself and life and how you want to proceed from this point on.

Will this require seeking a professional counselor to help you with that? Probably so.

Will this require you to find another avenue of obtaining revenue to keep up with your lifestyle? Probably so.

Having a serious relationship AND be independent does NOT work! Never has and never will. It doesn't matter what the gender is. In a serious relationship, it's BOTH partners finding a common gound, doing give and take. It's not all one-sided.

Good luck on your future.

Serpius


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-- Modified on 6/2/2012 8:39:29 AM

I think this is a great thread.  Personally, I think most, if not all, men pay for sex in one form or another - it's not always in $$.

One thing I think about often is this..  If I see a provider and give her, say $200 and we have sex, society thinks this is terrible - paying for sex.  But if I take her on a few dates and spend more money (and much more time) on her, and we have sex, this is more acceptable.  Either way, it's paying for sex, isn't it?

Another thing is this.  Women have made a lot of progress in the last 40 years or so, but I wonder if women are really any happier than they were in the 50s or 60s.  Seems like society (both men and women) are more unhappier now.




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I have, of course been through an early marriage in which I paid for all and then some even after it was over.  I have also enjoyed the company of many providers where the answer is a straight forward "yes".
I have also had many independent successful friends with benefits where the only "pay" was my finding pleasure in knowing what the friend needed to be satisfied and to provide it in return for which I was also satisfied.  
My wife is very successful financially and has no more need of my support than I have need of hers.  This has been a long lasting marriage.  
Finally, my current friend with benefits has been a deep and wonderful relationship for me for years and she has always held positions of authority and has been financially quite successful.  Again the "pay" is my finding pleasure in satisfying her her finding pleasure in satisfying me.  .  

I've been in love a few times.  It trumps all considerations about which partner is supporting the other financially, so it never comes down to a question of whether one is simply paying for sex.  Thus, I believe you're looking at the entire question of relationships too narrowly and probably should consider that.

As an older gentleman, I just feel that it is a tradition of men taking care of the feminine fairer sex and I have always been good with that.  Some women struggle mightily to destroy that concept.  I certainly want a independent woman, but at the same time, I want her to know how to be feminine.  Falling in love with the right girl can really reinforce the concept.  Finding the "right" girl is the hard part, but if it happens, can be so fine.  Since I've matured, when I "date" a girl it is to enjoy her company, and the primary goal is not sex.  When I was real young, yeah, it was a little different, but I quickly learned that some girls can be very special, if they are not so totally self centered.

love...she is talking about having a sugar daddy vs. seeing a lot of random guys but still wants to be independent. Not all of us are cut out for that type of arrangement, but many women make their way like that. It's nice at times to know you have one guy to depend on giving you a few grand every month, so you can just take it easy and not have to fk 5 guys a week, every week lol.

-- Modified on 6/2/2012 11:19:13 AM

Trying to ignore this fact is what causes problems.

A couple of posters I know and admire said that sex can occur between equals, and I acknowledge that this can and will occur on occasion, but that this is the exception, not the rule.

Why men should be in the position of having to pay for sex when it is known that both men and women benefit from sex (in somewhat different ways, albeit), is a bit of a mystery but I think it has to do with the fact that women provide the power that charge men up, and this is what creates the imbalance, as it were.

Whether the payment is by money, barter, labor or whatever, the bill must be paid eventually, or a grave karmic debt willl ensue.

I've learned this from my 40+ year tussle with sex, and I've become a happier man now that I know this.

Some time the cost is time and energy. Some time it is emotional stress. Sometimes the cost is in the risk involved in having sex. It could be in the effort put in to be attractive. It is often n the effort to connect to the person you wish to connect to. It could be in the caring about the person. It could be in the cost of the date, work to support the house hold, or in the envelope stuffed with green on the dresser. It cold be in the raising of kids, and/or child support. It could be in the STD treatments. It can even cost self respect or the lowering of ones standards. It could be in the effort to please ones partner. It can even be in the marketing of oneself.

There is always a cost. Sex is never free. Some of that cost is often in the form of money for us men. But everyone, man and woman pays for sex. It may not cost money and the costs can be low, but sex is never ever free.

I have spent over a million dollars in my life on my wife.  Not on shoes, she is not Imelda Marcos, but on houses, cars, medical care, vacations, living expenses, clothes, etc.

I came from an impoverised and broken family.  I started working when I was 12 years old, and was paying for everything I needed except for room and board and medical expenses by the time I was 14.  I put myself through college on a shoestring and loans.

During those years, when I was the most physically attractive I would ever be (13-25), I had a total of 2 steady girlfriends for a total of 14 months.  By the time I got out of high school, I had had multiple dates with just 5 girls, and had only been laid by two.

During college only had multiple dates with 3 women.  I only got laid by one of them who was one of my total of two steady girlfriends from my school years.

The common denominator was I had no money to spend on entertainment.  As Cyndi Lauper used to sing, "girls just want to have fun", and it takes money to do things they seemed to consider fun.

Once I starting working and had disposable cash, I started being attractive to women and my ability to secure companionship magically changed.

My wife of 33 years would never, never, never have been interested in me if I did not seem to be a successful, financially promising man that could provide a home and a family.  Not that she is materialistic and cynical.  She is absolutely not. She is frugal and a spendthrift.  But her price for access to sex and companionship was/is that I provide.  She would never consider that to be prostitution, because she, like most women do not frame the core nature of the transaction that way.  There are other aspects to the relationship that they prioritize and consider to be the primary reason they bond with their men.  

But bottom line, take away the booty, and there is no booty.  Its been this way since our ancestors roamed the wilderness for food.  If they didn't bring it back from the point of capture and share it with women, there would be no humans.  From a utilitarian point of view, it would be much easier to simply sit down and have a barbeque in the forest with the meat you captured.  But what drove males to drag those 400 lb antelopes back to the settlement was sex.  Bring back some meat, and you will get some meat so to speak.

And there is nothing wrong with that, it is the nature of our existence and how we evolved, and if it wasn't, as I said we wouldn't exist.

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First, a great thread

Second, I basically agree with scoed and inick's second posy, with a wave to Mr. Fisher.

Third, people are different.  Relationships are different.  One size does not fit all.  Therefore the assumption is bitter and jaded. It says"always"

Fourth, but reality in the form of societal patterns suggest that the assumption is usually correct.  If the question was "do many marriages impliedly involve an exchange of what a woman traditionally contributes (sex, housekeeping and/or child g) for what a man usually contributes, the answer is sure.

Fifth, the responses of the posters on this thread, including me, are really a product of his or her own history with what, at least initially, thet believed were relationships primarily based on an emotional connection.

I'm not into women who are needy or clingy . If she doesn't have a decent job, she's not for me   .  

If we go out to dinner and she offers to pay, I won't let my ego put her down  .  

Some guys will always insist on paying . They strive for more power , ending up with  less pussy .

I can go either way , no problem paying for dinner or not,  as long as I enjoy her company  .

Are guys that equate taking ladies to dinner as an expense, deeply in love with their money , or themselves ?

Gold digging women are a very  small minority  .

Independent women are  the only type  I pursue .



 

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I disagree..my so and I both work and share expenses and a good number of families are set up this way..I do not understand why a woman should expect a guy to pay for all her needs and those men who do so are retards in my book.

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is pretty much a binary situation but real life is somewhere in-between. Since you consider yourself a modes women, modern women are educated, confident, articulate, etc. Modern men are the same and are not intimidated by modern women and are willing to share 50/50 and they more often have a happy life.

I find educated, confident women attractive and was never attracted to clingy one’s, they drive me crazy. I have broken with more girls during my young adult dating days.

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Yes, I do agree that men are very physical beings that don't always see the true beauty in a woman.  I do not feel that I pay for sex.  I pay for companionship, or the feeling of that in any instance.  This is why I feel I am disappointed with my experiences most of the time.  It all depends on the man.  Not all men are assholes.  I do love my wife, but feel my marriage is in serious jeopardy.  I work my ass off and have even helped put my wife through school.  All I get is bitchbitchbitch.  Her life is so hard that she has to care for our child who is school age.  She has everything she needs yet my work keeps me busy.  I offer to cut back on work to spend more time with her and she says no because she would have to scale back on the fun things.  So tell me.....who is getting pimped.  So, rather than have an affair, as I have had opportunity, I hire an escort.  Believe it or not, some men who have wives with unjustified sharp tongues really lose sexual interest when they are being made to feel as if their hard work is not rewarded or even appreciated.  I am by no means rich, but I do well.  So I find myself at this juncture.  Divorce and lose half, or get an escort.  I enjoy providing for my family.  A healthy relationship requires a joint effort. Not one way or another.  I feel raising a child well, and my wife is an excellent mother, is part of my wife's effort. However, no man wants to be in a sexless and emotionally void marriage.  I sometimes wish I had married an escort.....ahh the best of both worlds. That is of course if the escort could split her time and allow a joint financial responsibility so as to allow the man to benefit from her most excellent skills.  It is only natural that each want the other to care for them. Just as many men seeing an escort seeks this out to replace what they are missing in their real life.  Now don't get me wrong, there are many who just want to satisfy that physical urge.  The bottom line is that any relationship that is expected to last must have emotional investment on both sides.  Sounds corny, but very true.  All men want is to be nurtured while feeling that they are appreciated.  It's not bad to have a man take care of you, just as long as you are willing to reciprocate on whatever terms your relationship dictates to keep each other happy. I hope this helps shed some insight on one mans opinion.

My basic answer to your basic question is, basically, yes.  There may be differing forms of payment, the price may differ, and the price-to-quality relationship may vary, but women regard compensation for their company as an entitlement.  All women at least intuitively understand the economics of the male-female relationship —of the hugely asymmetrical relationship between sexual supply and demand— and some become skilled traders in the marketplace.  "The hobby" would not exist —this site would not exist— if these conditions did not exist.

There will be those who quarrel, who offer contrary opinions, and for whom ideology trumps reality —and there may be exceptions to the rule, but they are exceptions.   The implicit understanding among the overwhelming majority of women [high 90% range] is that sexual access is a commodity and something the man must compete for and pay for, over and above any sexual pleasure the woman may receive.  The notion of an in-kind transaction doesn't apply here.

I struggle back and forth as many modern women do with wanting to be taken care of because I own my own house and pay for all my bills myself. But sometimes I DO get tired of it and I always have a sugar daddy or rich husband fantasy not too far away in the back of my head. I go to a gym where there's a lot of rich people and I often envy the women who never have to lift a finger to do much and not work at all or every worry about their finances: think pampered Orange County Housewife types. And yet, as much as I envy them, I'm proud to have my own economic power and not rely on a man.

Still though, and I'm pretty sure this is frequent, as a modern woman, I struggle with it everyday. And strangely some men are still intimidated by a woman who has her own home. They're like " You bought this yourself?"  Um yes, why is that surprising?


Then surprisingly, once, a client laughed at me when I said I enjoyed being a financially independent woman. He said " You're relying on MEN just like the same way a housewife relies on her husband." I didn't agree with that, but it got me thinking a little.

I am writing a book, actually, online right at the moment on an online publishing site ( that is looked at by major publishing houses constantly). For NanoWriMo, National Novel Writing Month,  held every year i November that was how I got the idea to write an in-depth study about the sociological, psychological, and economical aspects of escorting. It's not some tawdry tell-all book, but it's an in-depth look into the world of escorts and call girls. Most of the books written on the subject are often tell-all books, autobiographies, or are about streetwalkers and brothel girls. I decided to write one that incorporated many aspects that have not necessarily been explored yet, especially by a current working girl.

If my questions bother you, then you are clearly free to skip over them or as you have done here, not answer it.  I respect that.


Related Link: http://www.alluringava.com