Trying to find a "legal" way to regulate "illegal" activities like prostitution is a noble, but pointless effort. Use your head and find working girls who aren't crazy in the head.
Use your head and find clients who aren't crazy in the head.
See how simple it all is?
I noticed the earlier thread about an unfair blacklisting. I agree that the unmoderated bl boards that place information for public viewing pose many problems, not just to non-hobbyists who suddenly find their names posted, but also to hobbyists who have to deal with malicious, vengeful or blackmailing providers. It appears this is a trend, and certain unscrupulous providers are resorting to this behavior with multiple targets. They fully understand that posting a man's name on the publicly viewable portion of a bl board translates into dangerous exposure during google searches, and they use this weapon or they threaten this weapon. The bl boards offering this service to anyone are certainly a party to this problem. They must be eliminated. Hobbyists should avoid giving their personal information to any provider who doesn't have a reliable, solid reputation. I personally feel that the problems for hobbyists associated with blacklisting now surpass the threats of law enforcement to hobbyists. Your chances of being "outed" are greater than your chances of being busted. The blacklists (especially those that "out" hobbyists or identify anyone) that offer non-membership public viewing sections need to be attacked by class action lawsuits or hacked to pieces so they cannot continue to ruin lives. There must be someone in the "community" who posesses the wherewithal to either destroy or force new and better security policies at the guilty websites. Ultimately, these blacklisters pose very serious threats to the provider-hobbyist community. These sites have and will continue to disrupt the once-valued confidentiality that was pervasive; a situation once mostly taken for granted, but a condition that is now eroding. Warning: The ripple effect has started.
BL boards are integral to the safety of providers - they need to be better regulated and managed, not eliminated.
They have no place an endanger both hobbyist and provider. Hobbyist as being outed destroys lives and providers as many guys are less willing to be screened because of them. They need to go and there owners should be sued to the point they are forced to beg just to eat as they lost everything worth a dime in their name. The nonpublic provider only blacklist sites are needed. The OP is not attacking them.
Trying to find a "legal" way to regulate "illegal" activities like prostitution is a noble, but pointless effort. Use your head and find working girls who aren't crazy in the head.
Use your head and find clients who aren't crazy in the head.
See how simple it all is?
Blacklists do serve a legitimate purpose. Just a couple of months ago I had someone who was denied an appointment threaten to have his friends make an appointment, and he said when the girl got there, they'd rob her, and then they'd all rape her. You better believe I blacklisted him.
I'd sure want my favorite gals to have access to information about dangeroous clients. Any gal who doesn't want to see me is 100% within her rights... if she stands me up, it is within my rights to scratch her from my personal to do list forever. But to publically out some one... with outproof or appeal... is just wrong. ANYBODY who pisses you off, hobbiest or not, just put them on the NBL to ruin their life. Too bad I couldn't put my ex there just to F**** with her. LOL!
I have reason to strongly suspect that the blacklist sites are working hand in hand with and at the behest of the new breed of scum attorneys specializing in internet reputation repair. If so, this could go beyond the potential for class-action suits and could involve criminal charges of extortion. Anyone have any ideas on how to explore this issue?
Where you have to be a member to see information, are necessary and a good resource for providers to help weed out scum. Public blacklists, which out all your personal information, and are publicly searchable to anyone with an internet connection, and which someone can put a name on for any reason or even for no reason, should be banned!!!
big deal because no one but hookers (supposedly) will be able to see it. The best recourse for scumbags who assault and rob people is to put their info in public so they might think twice before doing it again. You really think anyone is scared of a bunch of hookers knowing he did it? Doubt it, which is why people should not mess with others period. I do think they should be regulated, do think you should have to provide some kind of "proof" before you are allowed to post though. Every blacklist I have ever done went hand in hand with some proof of what I posted.
I hate to say this, but when a guy or gal for that matter steps into this business, you take what comes with it. That's just part of it. If the guy was not here to begin with, I higly doubt he would have to worry about it...same for us. I don't like nut jobs stalking me, outing my info. reporters showing up at my damn house (long story), but if I was not London Rayne NONE of that crap would have happened.
You're not dealing with the brightest and the best here in case you hadn't noticed lol. Most of these people who do nothing but harrass have nothing but the hobby in their lives...nothing! They hate seeing others succeed, and damn sure hate any woman who has something other than being a hooker going on the outside. They will do everything they can to destroy it because it makes them think if they can keep her a hooker, they can then manipulate her.
Some providers are the same way with men, as in my thread below about a bs blacklist. Nothing going for them. Stop giving your info out...period! I require it locally only, but fk it. You guys have to protect yourselves too. Come to a mutual comfort level without having to give up your first born just to get some ass. It is NOT worth it!
-- Modified on 5/4/2012 10:33:33 AM
-- Modified on 5/4/2012 10:33:33 AM
London is right, as she often is. A lot of guys cough up too much info because they turn off intelligent thought when they see anarousing photo. Stop and be prudent about what you give out to someone you do not know well enough.
Having said that, blacklists serve a necessary purpose, and while I agree with the OP that some ladies have dammaged some men for spite, the same happens in the other direction at least as often. In reality a vindictive review with a few vindictive follow-up post can seriously dammage a lady's livelyhood.
Truer words have never been spoken. This industry is full of pleasures that tantalize the body and soul, as well as horrors that terrorize the mind and heart. If you're worried about getting burned, don't play with fire.
I hate to say this, but when a guy or gal for that matter steps into this business, you take what comes with it. That's just part of it.
First lets say you meet a guy that is dangerous. Lets say he gets violent. You blacklist him on a public blacklist site. He takes the normal fall out for being outed and loses everything (job, family, half his stuff, most of money). Now you have a guy that is violent with nothing to lose and he blames you for it. Things may end very badly for you as if someone wants your real info they will get it. Once the are outed they have nothing to lose and a vendetta if they are really dangerous. After they are outed you lose your trump card. They have nothing to lose by doing it again or worse.
Second if you have no real info blacklist have zero value. I can change my hobby info tomorrow, all of it. You can blacklist scoed, my hobby email, and my hobby phone and a fake first name all day long and guess what it will not do a damn thing. It all can be changed see a few BP providers that don't screen, Use them to sign up with the screening sites and I am golden again. The blacklists provide providers zero protection if it has no real info in it.
Thieves, and other scum with a brain will not give real information. Yes I know some thieves are as dumb as rocks but they are to dumb to realize the risk of blacklists. The blacklists do no good then. Providers preform this reinvention all the time when the review sites catch up with them. Guys using fake info can do it to. This makes screening much weaker.
Third there are as many unstable providers out there that has weaponized blacklist sites. You say so in your post. You have complained about fake reviews on this site in other posts. Fake reviews are HARMLESS compared to these sites. You have admitted to me that even on TER that takes great care to hold reviewers accountable that there are a great many fake reviews. While these reviews can cost business they are not going to out you, keep you from other employment in some fields, destroy your family, or cost you half of everything including your kids. Public Blacklist do that. They destroy lives.
If the sites do not list who posted them how is there any accountability? You have issues with reviews from aliases, but each one only get one alias so there is some accountability. But unless the ladies stage name is listed or her one alias for that site there is zero accountability with a listing that could destroy a life. Now if the lady is listed then you are putting her at great risk. Ladies have destroyed men over reviews, Reviews are harmless when compared to public outings.
Non-dangerous clients need not be publicly blacklisted, dangerous clients can become even more dangerous after the blacklisting. These sites make being screened risky and less guys are then willing to be screened using information that is not disposable. Making guys less accountable in the long run. In short they add risk for all and only really hurt those that are trusting or stupid and not the truly dangerous people in this game. They have no good use. Outing just ups the stakes.
London Rayne, I respect you, but I feel you are extremely wrong here. Your best bet if the guy is violent is LE as risky as that is and if robbed warn others and cut your loses. That is what I had to do when I was robbed. Then screen better so you weed the scum out next time.
Yea right. Most of what we say is in fact told to the person it is said about anyways, so a public blacklist site does nothing other than put the guilty parties on front street. I think those who really fk up deserve to be there..end of story. You don't have to agree.
That the fact he is blacklisted anywhere could make a man already dangerous man act in an aggressive manor. This I will not dispute. But here is my real point. Have you every been outed by real name as a sex worker? Have you ever had family members shun you because someone outed you? Have you ever had friends quit being friends because they think you are cheating on your SO and giving him STD's? Have you?
I have as a hobbyist. My cousin outed me when he found out I was seeing escorts after a favorite of mine got busted a year and a half ago. I was seeing red. I wanted him dead. I am not psycho and I didn't even do a damn thing to him, but I wanted to. I am fairly non violent now days, but it invoked me to such anger that I wanted to hurt him.
Now if I being a guy who has control of his temper, who had his wife rallying to defend him, and ended up better off being outed, so it cost me little could be made to see red because of an outing. How do you honestly think a real dangerous man, who lost his wife and kids plus half of everything he owns and perhaps his job, and has shown in action that he does not mind hurting escorts is going te react? If he is really dangerous the person he blames may be in real jeopardy. Just saying.
I agree those that really do bad things like rob, threaten, hurt, rape or the like diverse far worse than any blacklist can do. These men are scum. These men are the ones most likely to escalate things to a dangerous level. Yet if these was the only ones on these sites, and if the ladies where all screened for integrity before they where allowed to post, I would have zero issue with the sites. That is not the case.
Most are on one as time wasters, NCNS, and similar minor offenders. Hell there are those on these sites for giving too much detail in a review or a board post. Real info even pictures on some sites. Then you add that there is zero screening of who posts and people lie a lot in this game on both sides. It looks like these sites main goal is to be a weapon against anyone providers don't like. They aren't all that useful as screening tools as you have no clue of the information's source.
NCNS does not warrant outing, those think it does are dangerous. These sites does think a NCNS equals outing thus making them dangerous. Guys know this and many try to avoid screening in any real way because of it, even to the point of giving false screening info. This makes things more dangerous for the ladies. These sites are bad for everyone. They are so full of lies as to make them useless as a screening tool as there is zero accountability. Even on sites like TER that there is some accountability have lies. There is likely even more out and out lies on sites with ZERO accountability.
I said my piece.
-- Modified on 5/6/2012 9:05:44 AM
What happened to you is not supposed to happen and a family member did it at that! I know exactlhy what public blacklists do to the guilty parties, and I don't much care what happens to some scum bag who thinks it's ok to rob or rape a hooker because we are not considered human anyway. What happened to you is the exception NOT the rule and the argument you are making that they make hobbyists even more violent is a guess at best. Have never seen it play out that way. Like you said in your other post...what good does blacklisting a handle do when you can get a new one every damn week?
You're not a provider, so you really don't know what we need to protect us. This is not "wrong" but simply your opinion. You can sit here all day and whine about it, but it's not going to change. Pull the blacklist sites and your info is just going to be posted on CL if someone has it in for you. Nothing anyone can do but stay out of the business period! No one forced any of you guys to come play in this world, just as no one forced me. If I ever got to the point that the things you say you dealt with happened to me, I would be gone. Simple.
It does happen I have proof that getting outed is not rare at all. It happens more than any other hobby risk for us guys. Now carelessness is the number one factor but it is far from the only.
Look at the sites you are defending. Less then 10% are robbers, rapists, VICE or other dangerous guys. Most are there, if the women who put them there are who they say they are and is speaking the truth, are there for a NCNS, wasting a providers time with emails/calls or the like. Things most every business deals with on a regular bases. Most on the sites are not dangerous people, just inconsiderate if every lady outing someone is speaking the truth. Fact is on one site they posted a photo and full name of a guys daughter because he wrote a review that discussed sex acts. Her name now Googles to a blacklist too and she is a minor. She was not in the hobby at all. PM for proof if you need it. How does that keep anyone safe?
I can care less about what happens to a rapist they are filthy scum that deserve to be locked away for every and have every liberty stripped from them. My issue is not nor has it ever been about what happens to robbers and rapists. It is about those with minor crimes like posting a review a lady didn't like or not showing up to a date, and those falsely accused. Hell, even some of the sites themselves claims that it happens, they just don't care.
As for me not being a provider, that is very true. No one would pay me for sex. Nope not a provider. But the person I am closest to, a person I would do anything for, a person I who's needs I put before my own, is. I seen the harm that can happen to you ladies if you are not careful. I am very protective of my wife and of friends that are/were providers. I know more than you think about screening and how to do it right. I have ladies get hurt that I care about because of their stupidity over not screening proper. I
As for your statement "No one forced any of you guys to come play in this world, just as no one forced me." It is true. I never wanted to have the hobby enter my life, but I was not forced. You are right as well that I am guess based on my experiences with truly unstable people that when backed in a corner they lash out in violent ways. I have never seen a truly violent hobbyist get outed, only violent drunks that got ratted out and took it out on the person that ratted them out.
We will not see eye to eye on this. But some things you said bothered me so I replied. I know nothing I say makes a bit of difference. These sites exist and they are not going anywhere. In my opinion they add to everyone's risk, you thing that somehow they make life safer for the ladies to out guys that NCNS. Nothing will change, so it don't matter.
I as an escort rely and appreciate blackllist sites and I know damn well what they can do. Don't play in this world if you can't take what comes with it...simple. I don't like the crap I have been through but I CHOOSE to be here...for money, not a nut. You claim all this "guessing" on statistics is facts and it is NOT. You simply do not know how many of those alerts are real and how many are bs. You only know the ones that happened to people you are close to...that's IT! There are reports of HIV, Rape, Robbery, etc. You won't ever see the killing because the girl is DEAD already! Like I said, it is not a blacklist site that is the enemy, it is the person behind the bs ones! You blame the tool, I blame the idiot misusing it!
-- Modified on 5/6/2012 9:05:21 AM
I have zero issues with them. Ladies need to be able to warn each other and they do that. Second I see the public blacklist sites. On one of them it took 2 pages to find a complaint more serous then he shorted me $20 or he was a NCNS with about 10 guys a page that is 5% not a made up number. This site even had photos of the dudes, names, addresses, phone Numbers the works.
Or look at the NBL in my area of the first 20, 10 are for NCNS, 3 for time wasters, 2 failed to pay, 1 shorted a lady, 3 LE (which does not use the same number name twice), 1 Couldn't tell as was not in the first part and I am not a member. So only 3 the robber type, no violent anything. Hell there is only 5 marked as dangerous and all five had no info listed ever. Mostly it is the NCNS with full names not the dangerous clients that earned it. Not made up numbers.
Plus the poor girl who is listed because her father reviewed a lady that is too young to even hobby or provider on anther site. Why is that ever allowed????? It is the site it self that is to blame for that one.
Where is the rapists and armed robbers info? Should I start making public every providers REAL name that NCNS me? I often can get it as many ladies are careless. Why not if they do it to us? The reason is it is wrong and you know it. Why is outing ever allowed over such small things? Because the sites care less about actual safety of the ladies but instead jut want to punish clients.
A provider can create a pdf and put it on google and it will be the same damn thing! No regulation, no nothing. I don't agree with outing real info for offenses that are not serious...never, but there is no way to stop it. You have an ax to grind against someone so you're blaming the site. BLAME the people who did it!
Yes the site allowed it, but so what. Even review boards allow posts to go up then they pull them..so, the crap was still out there for no telling how many people to read it. When you use verifyhim.com you don't have to scroll through 8 pages of crap on NBL because it ONLY takes you to the offenses of the person in question. I never look at NBL...just verifyhim for that very reason.
If blacklists sites like NBL are taken down guess what...won't make a damn bit of difference. The person against you will just use CL, BP, or even google to smear your name and it will be more public than NBL.
I'm out.
Hey EdgyFred,
I do agree with your posting, however, like someone as already commented, how is this going to be done?
Who is the person willing to 'Take It One For The Team?'.
Imagine how much crapola someone will have to endure just to clean up those blacklisted websites? It's not going to be an easy task, that's for sure.
Do you or anyone know if TER has a blacklist?
I haven't seen or heard of one being on TER.
Serpius
I think there should be one secure subscription-based site for providers only to report only that fractional subset of clients who represent a real and credible threat to the health or safety of other providers. Further, there should be a limited search feature for hobbyists to see the aggregate number of reports filed by any provider, so they can judge for themselves if someone is abusing the system. No shows, time wasters and harsh reviewers are just part of the business. While they may be a nuisance, they hardly reach the threshold of credible threat and don't belong on any blacklist. Providers that use the blacklist as black mail are making the hobby less safe because they are fueling the reluctance to provide complete screening information.
You can use Cl or even Backpage and still do the same thing. Even when the post is pulled there is still the cache, and these ads just keep being posted over and over. I have seen it countless times. You get rid of the blacklists and people will just move to another board..one that is even more in the open. I would think outing your hubby in the tupperware section would get a lot more friends of the family to see his name...not some blacklist site made only for hookers. Just sayin.
