toothpaste CAN be put back in the tube. My only point is that once its in common usage as it is in SF and more recently LA that PSE = BBFS, there are going to be problems unless providers make it clear in their ads that offer PSE that they DO NOT mean BBFS.
I get about 10 PM's a day from Kgirl hobbyists that use the term "PSE" to describe BBFS, so its not just a handful of Korean girls using that that a few clueless young guys here think. These guys are not trusted hobbyists in a network of vets, so they are outsiders and donThe veteran hobbyists in LA know what I'm talking about. Once its become common usage with a significant segment of the market, IT IS WHAT IT IS. Many don't like it. Frankly, I don't like it either, but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend its not a changing marketplace here.
Anyone is confused about these 2 terms, pls raise your hand. It took a real expert GaGambler to pronounce that we should not let a small confused minority to bully us into changing the English language to suit them.
It all started with a dozen Kgirls in SF area who advertised PSE to imply BBFS. Of course some assholes fell for that. But a small confused minority started to add confusion into our language, implying that the 2 terms are synonymous. .
I'm curious. Are there more than 10% on this board who doesn't understand the difference between those two terms?
-- Modified on 3/21/2017 9:15:49 AM
On the other board. Even, for the sake of argument, only 10% of the hobby community, both providers and customers, think the terms are synonymous, it WILL cause problems and misunderstandings for the other 90% of the community.
If a hobbyist seeking to book asks if PSE is on the menu, and is of the belief he is asking for BBFS, but the provider thinks he's just asking for CIM and says yes, you don't think there will be a problem when he shows up for the appointment? If so, I would venture to say you're a "majority" of one.
If you were a real hobbyist, you would understand the difference between someONE being confused versus a situation being confusing because of common usage terms that may have multiple meanings. Clearly, your inexperience is what makes it seem confusing to you.
It certainly can be used to mean BBFS. Perhaps in the past it absolutely didn't, but language changes with time. Ultimately we need clarity of language and at minimum contextual clarity. This means that if it's not obvious what PSE means we need new language to describe that service.
Anecdotally, the only time I've asked about PSE was with a girl who does porn and in my inquiry I was asked if I could provide a current STD panel before the appointment. Upon further discussion this was the norm with this girl (who I'm not going to name publicly) this was the norm with booking PSE with her. Also worth noting, she was requesting $2k an hour, plus travel, for this, Double her normal rate. With that in mind, the premium for PSE that includes BBFS makes more sense.
Most of the time I see PSE advertised it's 16-20% more, which I wouldn't be made to think it was BB at that premium.
So contextually, with price, this starts to be a little clearer, but not totally clear. Adding something like "No BBFS" to your ad makes it 100% clear, which I think is a good idea to implement at this point if you're a provider offering PSE.
Now, this brings up an interesting point. Is it possible to offer BBFS safely? or I should say, reasonably safe? I think the consensus is that it's too risky to even be considered, but is that so absolute? They're doing it in the porn industry daily after all, so it must be possible to not give everyone literal AIDS while doing so. Surely if we follow the same rules we'd be close to as safe. Also with the advent of HIV prevention meds and in the near future HSV vaccines, I don't think it's outrageous to think BB would be a common offering.
I stand by my words. Especially those last three words I mentioned at the end of my post. lol
I will concede that when referencing PSE in areas where the term has been corrupted to mean BBFS by "some" making a brief disclaimer that you are NOT looking for BBFS might be advised.
How a dozen or so women who barely speak English can force the rest of us who have used this term for years to change our definition to suit THEM is beyond me. Come on California guys, grow a fucking pair already, or are you so accustomed to the PC Police telling you what you can and cannot say that you have given up all semblance of free will?
PSE is PSE. BBFS is BBFS, they are NOT the same.
It's not even all California, just SF Bay area where some Koreans whose understanding of English is limited, gave havoc to the hobby world. As a former CA Gov said, "Are you guys girly men, or what?" We stand firm to protect our language.
I will concede that when referencing PSE in areas where the term has been corrupted to mean BBFS by "some" making a brief disclaimer that you are NOT looking for BBFS might be advised.
How a dozen or so women who barely speak English can force the rest of us who have used this term for years to change our definition to suit THEM is beyond me. Come on California guys, grow a fucking pair already, or are you so accustomed to the PC Police telling you what you can and cannot say that you have given up all semblance of free will?
PSE is PSE. BBFS is BBFS, they are NOT the same.
those girly men who are prone to cave to Kgirls.
but it says a lot more about the guys who are going to let handful of Korean hookers dictate to them how the entire country is now supposed to change the meaning of a term that has been in use for years.
Just how pussy whipped do you have to be to just "go along" with it because a handful of hookers told you to?
It is like calling yourself "cisgender" instead of "normal" because the LGBT community told you to. Sorry, but as much as I support the LGBT community and their right to be treated like the rest of us, I will treat them EXACTLY like the rest of us and tell them to GO FUCK THEMSELF!!! with this stupid cisgender crap.
Yeah, I know that was a bit off topic, but I am feeling particularly anti PC today. lol
toothpaste CAN be put back in the tube. My only point is that once its in common usage as it is in SF and more recently LA that PSE = BBFS, there are going to be problems unless providers make it clear in their ads that offer PSE that they DO NOT mean BBFS.
I get about 10 PM's a day from Kgirl hobbyists that use the term "PSE" to describe BBFS, so its not just a handful of Korean girls using that that a few clueless young guys here think. These guys are not trusted hobbyists in a network of vets, so they are outsiders and don
The veteran hobbyists in LA know what I'm talking about. Once its become common usage with a significant segment of the market, IT IS WHAT IT IS. Many don't like it. Frankly, I don't like it either, but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and pretend its not a changing marketplace here.
What you are suggesting, actually what you are "demanding" is that the entire country kowtow to a handful of K-girl and fanboys because a "lot" of them have corrupted the term.
If every guy from NYC, DC or somewhere else is going to get a lecture everytime they use PSE in the traditional sense of the term, I guess I am going to be issuing a lot of GFY's because I am not going to be bullied into misusing a term just because you guys in California couldn't stand up to a few K-Girls.
I suppose if they decided next that GFE means Greek and some of the SF pussies go along with it, the rest of the country is going to be forced to go along with THAT too? I think not. I flatly refuse to use PSE as being synonymous with BBFS, if it causes problem so be it.
It only "is what it is" if you let it be that way. It's obvious a lot of other guys don't like the new meaning crammed down their throat either. I guess we will see who wins, a handful of k-girls and fan boys or the entire rest of the P4P community? I know who I have my money on.
And see what the state of the nation is compared to now. I'm guessing the term PSE will be more widely used to indicate BBFS in cities across the US that have a Kgirl agency presence. I think the tendency to say PSE is because it sounds more genteel than BBFS in advertising and promotion.
bastardize OUR English. Should I introduce a new term for those who kowtow to the Kgirls? How about Kgirly men? (just kidding, don't overreact!) 
GFE+ is already a rather ambiguous term that is thrown around that doesn't have universally accepted meaning, Why not use PSE+ to convey the meaning these girls are trying to get across?
Otherwise there really is going to be problems, especially from all the non K-girls who advertise PSE and most certainly aren't going BB with all their clients. They most certainly are going to give some push back on this and I don't blame them. I mean what do you propose these women start to call the service they offer? They were here first and to expect them to change because a handful of K-girls and fan boy is simply not realistic or fair for that matter.
If all you CA fan boys could tell the bookers you deal with about the problems and confusion they are causing, maybe this could be the solution?
PSE+ would be an excellent way to differentiate. Good idea. Now . . . . . how to get everyone to go along would be the challenge.
You also have the problem with the Newbies that think they know the business that don't even recognize that there IS some confusion over this that can lead to problems and misunderstandings between providers and hobbyists, as evidenced by all of the posts here saying there IS NO confusion. Hopefully, they will get some smarts as they become more experienced hobbyists, but with millennials, don't hold your breath. Lol
-- Modified on 3/22/2017 6:51:43 AM
all they are contrasting is the confused tiny minority vs the un-confused vast majority.
But if PSE+ will do the trick, I'll drink to that.
You also have the problem with the Newbies that think they know the business that don't even recognize that there IS some confusion over this that can lead to problems and misunderstandings between providers and hobbyists, as evidenced by all of the posts here saying there IS NO confusion. Hopefully, they will get some smarts as they become more experienced hobbyists, but with millennials, don't hold your breath. Lol
-- Modified on 3/22/2017 6:51:43 AM
minority, but don't yet have enough experience to know it. They misguidedly THINK they're in the majority. With age comes an awareness of what you don't know and have yet to learn. YOU don't know what you don't know, so your conclusions based on a lack of information are invalid on their face. I'm guessing your response will prove you have no clue what I'm talking about. We'll see.
I'll see if we can carry this to the bitter end.
You sound like a clueless Kgirly man prone to cave in to K bookers because you need to Brown nose to them.
He has too much time on his hand, and every post is a chance for him to crave attention. Let me tell you a story to illustrate. He once bragged that he was invited by a Kgirl to meet her parents. Sure, because they wanted to buy snake oil. LMAO.
You sound like a clueless Kgirly man prone to cave in to K bookers because you need to Brown nose to them.
You sure spend a lot of time and energy posting about and bringing attention to someone you are allegedly trying to ignore.
First, I can't ignore him because he took every chance to attack me. But notice I don't sink to his level to converse with him. I have friends who watch my back and keep score. On the average, for every 2 or 3 attacks he launched against me, I fired back only once.
To such a low life, I'm more than fair.
Both clueless. My work here is done. Lol
BTW Sloc, the alias isn't fooling anyone, but you're giving L-K some competition for village idiot.
-- Modified on 3/22/2017 9:39:19 PM
When "most" reviewers say PSE about us they mean "raw wild uninhibited dirty sex" and NOT BBFS. I suppose over time when guys get punched in the face or blacklisted for trying to nonconsensually fuck providers without condoms THAT will be the loudest message of all.
We aren't allowed to use those terms in our ads or they get deleted and we suffer recourse
but what is happening thanks to a handful of K-girls and the guys who won't stand up to them is that the terms are being corrupted and the meanings changed to imply that PSE is now "code" for BBFS.
So while you are still free to use the term, if we don't do something to nip this in the bud before it becomes common place, you are likely to have a bunch of guys hitting you up for BBFS if you advertise PSE because they erroneously believe that's now what it means. That's not fair to you or to any woman that offers a PSE.
What I am suggesting is that the guys (and girls) stand up and DEMAND these people who are misusing the term STOP doing so and stop now.
Ah yes, just demand that people you have no contact with stop using words that you have a different definition before.
Yup, that'll work.
And let's admit it, PSE was shit from the get go, They very seldom use condoms in porn, whereas most in the hobby always use condoms. They're doing us a favor by butchering this acronym so we can come up with one that actually describes the service offered.
Just to be safe because of some idiots out there in the west coast, especially the SF area, who think that PSE is synonymous with BBFS, I suggest just leaving PSE out of your ads. It'll only confuse guys and possibly inquire if u offer it.
Urban Dictionary. Does it have a Korean version?
But there's quite a few that as soon as they see PSE on a review, it's "Oh boys, she's does BBFS". I've heard and know that when a girl gets a mention of PSE in her review, the cock roaches come out of the woodwork.
Not sure what this KGirl thing is all about but you asked if "there's more than 10% on this board who doesn't understand the difference between those two terms?"..my answer is that they don't know, and they don't care.
I think it would be VERY scary to show up to an appointment where a man thought that I was offering BBFS when I was absolutely only offering PSE and NOT BBFS. YIKES.
It all started with a dozen Kgirls in SF area who advertised PSE to imply BBFS. Of course some assholes fell for that. But a small confused minority started to add confusion into our language, implying that the 2 terms are synonymous. .
I'm curious. Are there more than 10% on this board who doesn't understand the difference between those two terms?
-- Modified on 3/21/2017 9:15:49 AM
It's costs you nothing to say "Absolutely No BBFS" in your ads/websites, and you gain absolute clarity.
The only time I had a gentleman assume GFE was BBFS was an international client.
I have seen girls in other countries like Australia says BBFS is part of their PSE...
Then everyone says...oh it differs...ugh and yes, it confuses the gents.
I always believed PSE was one of the following:
1. an actual pornstar
2. the energy of the session was amped up, dirtier, more costumes, Alevels, facials, bbbj but covered fs.
Someone in this thread said, just put no BBFS in your PSE ads...gents need tounderstand that such words may not be possible anymore on MANY advertising sites anymore. No acronyms allowed or limited. Also NO BBFS conveys that a type of sex is being offered. Even GFE is not allowed in some places...
I just had a rather tame sentence in an Eros ad deleted because it was too suggestive. Many places that ladies advertise are tightening up on security so they can no be targeted and keep their billing processing.
If you are confused, I would say as the provider directly and never make BBFS assumptions.
Cheers,
Bella
If you can't advertise as GFE you probably can't advertise as PSE either, so it's a non-starter.
At that point, you need to get more creative, but ultimately you're the one initiating the communication with an ad, therefore you are responsible to clearly communicate what you're offering.
Within the context of our hobby, we can define our terms all we want -- by 'we' I mean regular, sophisticated hobbyists -- and we should. But in the end, the language usage is generally beyond anyone's control, and definitions will morph and go where the flow takes them.... Alas for clarity and precision....
At the end of the day though, I realized this specific debate doesn't matter to me anymore. I am going to see whom I want to see, based mainly on appearance and my research, and it is up to me to accept or decline the services that are offered.
i thought Extreme GFE was the polite shorthand for BBFS ...and now its possibly PSE ...i thought that was for BBBJ and BBBJCIMNQNS and LSD and NFL and LBJ and some LAX and dont forget a little NBA. gosh i am getting too old for all this about ...lets just simplify to just FMBYWLMMA ....."fuck me but you wont last more than a minute anyway"
bottom line BBFS in an ad is the great catch 22 anyway .. that is, anyone publicly offering it is the last person you want to do it with. now back to our regularly scheduled posting.
I'm glad other people are also confused by the term PSE. I always thought PSE was Greek, COF, FIA, CIM (some cases CIMNQNS), and basically just like hardcore porn. Now we have a bunch of providers & hobbyists cropping up with crazy requests/demands... Ayyyyyyy smh